Harvey Jones Interview
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Interviewee: Harvey Jones
Interviewer: Robert Stone
Date: 9/25/2003
Location:
Language: English
For the archive overview:
The Robert Stone Sacred Steel Archive
This is an interview originally recorded for research purposes. It is presented here in its raw state, unedited except to remove some irrelevant sections and blank spaces. All rights to the interview are reserved by the Arhoolie Foundation. Please do not use anything from this website without permission. info@arhoolie.org
Harvey Jones Interview Transcripts:
Robert Stone:
First, I appreciate you taking time out. As Felton might’ve explained, I’m working on a book that will be published by the University of Illinois Press when I get it done… Which no, it’s, it’s already a little overdue, so I’m hoping to get it done this year or by the end of 2004. But if we could, can we just start out with just first of all, just the basic stuff, like when and where you were born and who your parents were? Well, what’s your full name, first?
Harvey Jones:
I was born in Mississippi.
Robert Stone:
What’s your full name?
Harvey Jones:
Harvey. Franklin.
Robert Stone:
Franklin, uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
Jones.
Robert Stone:
Okay. And you were born where?
Harvey Jones:
Oxford, Mississippi.
Robert Stone:
Oxford, Mississippi! I’ll be doggone.
Harvey Jones:
You ever heard of it?
Robert Stone:
Oh yeah. That’s where the University of Mississippi is.
Harvey Jones:
Now you got it, now you got it, yeah, that’s it. Old Miss.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And what’s your date of birth?
Harvey Jones:
9/8/22.
Robert Stone:
Oh, so you’re just a year older than Willie Eason himself. I mean a year younger.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, you know him?
Robert Stone:
Know him very well.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, yeah?
Robert Stone:
Very, very, very well. He calls me his son.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, okay!
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
I knew him real good. He played the Hawaiian guitar.
Robert Stone:
Right, exactly.
Harvey Jones:
In Nashville.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, he was one of the very early ones.
Harvey Jones:
Right, right.
Robert Stone:
Now I’m trying to think. Now how about your folks? Who were your parents? What were their names?
Harvey Jones:
Maud Jones.
Robert Stone:
Maud Jones…
Harvey Jones:
And Dan Jones.
Robert Stone:
Okay. And so how long did you live in Oxford, Mississippi?
Harvey Jones:
I lived there until I was about 14 years old.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative)?
Harvey Jones:
And we moved from down there.
Robert Stone:
And where’d you move to?
Harvey Jones:
Muskegon, Michigan.
Robert Stone:
Muskegon, Michigan.
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Just about 200 miles from where Felton lived.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). And what kind of work did your dad do?
Harvey Jones:
Farmer.
Robert Stone:
He was a farmer?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). And do you know why they moved to Michigan?
Harvey Jones:
Well, it’s trying to find a better living.
Robert Stone:
Right, exactly.
Harvey Jones:
It was back in the late ’30s and early ’40s, it was bad shape, bad living in Mississippi.
Robert Stone:
Right.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Right, right, right. And so you were a guitar player, right?
Harvey Jones:
Yes.
Robert Stone:
And how did you get started playing the guitar?
Harvey Jones:
Well, it run in my family.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
I think it’s kind of hereditary.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). Who else played?
Harvey Jones:
My mother and her brothers. It was five girls and seven boys of my mother’s family. And about all the boys could play, but only one girl, which was my mother could play. So I picked it up from the Boles. She’s my mother was a Boles.
Robert Stone:
Her name, her maiden name-
Harvey Jones:
Her maiden name was Boles.
Robert Stone:
Okay.
Harvey Jones:
And she married my daddy, which made me a Jones.
Robert Stone:
Now is that B-O-L-E-S?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). Okay.
Harvey Jones:
So I picked it up from the Boles side. From my mother’s side.
Robert Stone:
I see. Now, I’m curious, did you play with a thumb pick and finger picks?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. I played with a thumb and finger.
Robert Stone:
One finger, or two?
Harvey Jones:
Two.
Robert Stone:
Two fingers, okay-
Harvey Jones:
No, no, no. Thumb and one finger.
Robert Stone:
Thumb and one finger. Okay.
Harvey Jones:
But I could, I could do the same with the two picks, thumb and finger, as I could with a straight pick.
Robert Stone:
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Understand, yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Double, like double strokes.
Robert Stone:
Right, exactly. Sure. Sure. And it seems that one thing that’s interesting to me is that in the Jewell Dominion, it seems that almost nobody played with the flat pick, they all played with a thumb and one or two finger picks.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. I think that most of them picked it up from me because-
Robert Stone:
Is that right?
Harvey Jones:
I was the first receiver… I won their regionals that started to play with the Jewells in 1942.
Robert Stone:
1942 is when you started with the Jewells?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
How did that go? When and where were you?
Harvey Jones:
Well, Cleveland, Ohio. I left Muskegon and moved to Cleveland and that’s where I got with the church there in Cleveland.
Robert Stone:
That’s where you actually… You joined the church there?
Harvey Jones:
Well, I was already in the church, but I joined the Jewell, the group.
Robert Stone:
Right.
Harvey Jones:
Traveling with the group.
Robert Stone:
Okay. You joined… So you were already in the church.
Harvey Jones:
It was already in that denomination.
Robert Stone:
Right, okay.
Harvey Jones:
I got with the… Jewell was the leader, was the head of the church.
Robert Stone:
Right.
Harvey Jones:
Well, I got with her.
Robert Stone:
Let’s backtrack a little bit. Was your family in that church?
Harvey Jones:
Yes and no. Some of them was, but I was the main one that was really rooted in it.
Robert Stone:
Okay. And so you got with Bishop Jewell herself in Cleveland and her musicians.
Harvey Jones:
Right.
Robert Stone:
And who else were the musicians?
Harvey Jones:
Lorenzo Harrison. Corroneva Burns.
Robert Stone:
Right.
Harvey Jones:
And Nettie Mae Harrison, who was the piano player. And let’s see… Morris Daniel. He was a drummer.
Robert Stone:
Morris Daniel.
Harvey Jones:
Well, see him and Corroneva Burns, they played the drums, but one dropped out and the other one’s taking it over.
Robert Stone:
And, Corroneva was the one who stuck, right?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Yeah. You got it.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. I just met him.
Harvey Jones:
You met Corroneva?
Robert Stone:
Yep. He was up-
Harvey Jones:
Hey, you know all my folks! How’d you get a hold of all them people?
Robert Stone:
Well, I just met him up in Nashville. I was at that House of God’s centennial.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, oh, okay. Okay.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. And he was pointed out to me, Chuck Campbell pointed him out and said, “You need to talk to that guy. That guy played drums for Harrison for years.”
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, right. Right.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Well, we started together in 1942, and I stayed with them until 1957.
Robert Stone:
Wow.
Harvey Jones:
15 years of it.
Robert Stone:
Wow.
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And when I first met Willie Eason was in Nashville. He was with the other side, with the Keith Dominion.
Robert Stone:
Do you remember when you first met Willie Eason?
Harvey Jones:
Not the exact year, but it was about a year or two, couple of years after I started traveling with Bishop Jewell, I met him at the meeting in Nashville.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). At the general assembly?
Harvey Jones:
Right, right. Right.
Robert Stone:
Now, when you met him, was he playing at the assembly?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes.
Harvey Jones:
He was playing. He did a lot of street playing, too.
Robert Stone:
Exactly. Yeah. And I guess Bishop Lockley was in charge of that.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, Bishop Lockley, you know him too? How you get a hold of all these folks?
Robert Stone:
Well, hey, this is… Well, let me.
Harvey Jones:
[crosstalk 00:08:52] ain’t you?
Robert Stone:
I’ve been in this for since 1992. I’ve been researching this. And actually I’m pretty familiar with the people on the Keith side. It’s on the Jewell Dominion side where I’ve just really started with Felton and fellows like yourself. Now, so, it might’ve been… If you started with them in 1942, so it might’ve been ’44, something like that, ’43, ’44.
Harvey Jones:
Right, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Now was Troman around then?
Harvey Jones:
Who?
Robert Stone:
Troman Eason. So you don’t even know him.
Harvey Jones:
I don’t know that one.
Robert Stone:
That was Willie’s older brother.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, no. I’ve probably seen him, but I didn’t, you know-
Robert Stone:
Well, you may not have, because apparently he didn’t stay too long. And he was about 25 years older than Willie.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, okay. Okay.
Robert Stone:
He was born about 1900-
Harvey Jones:
About the only one I remember of the Easons was Willie.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative), great. And now, so were you… I’m calling from Gainesville, Florida.
Harvey Jones:
I thought you said you was in Florida. That’s where I got married at, man.
Robert Stone:
Well, let’s keep talking, because I talked to Nettie Mae Harrison last week.
Harvey Jones:
No, no you didn’t! No, you didn’t!
Robert Stone:
Yes, I did. And the first… Let me tell you the first thing I said, I gave her, told her… You may or may not know it, but I’m the guy who’s been producing the records of the… We did all, Keith Dominion guys, except for… We did one album on Sonny Treadway.
Harvey Jones:
Sonny Treadway? Yeah.
Robert Stone:
But I’ve done six albums of this stuff for this small record. Like have you seen any of them?
Harvey Jones:
No. No. Not that I know. See, I’ve been out of here. I kind of…
Robert Stone:
I have to fix you up with some stuff.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, be sure to!
Robert Stone:
Well, before we’re done, I can’t send you all of them right now, but there’s also a video I want you to look at.
Harvey Jones:
Okay.
Robert Stone:
We did a real professional documentary video.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah?
Robert Stone:
And it really doesn’t get into the Jewell Dominion, hardly at all. We just mentioned Harrison casually, but we got Willie Eason on video, and we got some old footage of Henry Nelson, because he had already passed when we made the video. But we got a bunch of… We got Ted Beard and Chuck Campbell, and a bunch of stuff and we tie it into the whole Hawaiian tradition.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
Well, I did not know me and Harrison. We married one week apart in Gainesville. [crosstalk 00:11:38]
Robert Stone:
You married in Gainesville also?
Harvey Jones:
Huh?
Robert Stone:
You married in Gainesville also?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Harrison got married… Like Lorenzo got married like this Saturday night, me and my wife got married the next Saturday.
Robert Stone:
So you married one week later?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Right. Right.
Robert Stone:
On a Saturday.
Harvey Jones:
We lived in Ocala.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
In Ocala just about 35 miles from Gainesville.
Robert Stone:
I’m down there all the time. And you know who… You may or may not remember who’s got me going on all this Ocala connection is Henry Nelson’s sister, Mary, Mary.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Now, she was born in 1928. So she’s just a little younger than you. Of course, when you’re young, a few years makes a big difference. So you might not have-
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Right, right. Okay.
Robert Stone:
So you played at that Jewell Dominion church in Ocala then?
Harvey Jones:
Well, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Now let me ask you was Lorenzo… When you were in Ocala and you got married, Lorenzo was already playing steel?
Harvey Jones:
No, no, no. He started, when I got done there, he got with us. He was only 17 years old and I was 19. He was 17, and I was 19.
Robert Stone:
I thought he was only 15.
Harvey Jones:
No, his wife, Nettie Mae was something.
Robert Stone:
12.
Harvey Jones:
But Lorenzo was about 17, because I’m two years older than him.
Robert Stone:
Okay.
Harvey Jones:
That’s his home.
Robert Stone:
Right.
Harvey Jones:
His home was in Ocala.
Robert Stone:
Right.
Harvey Jones:
We went down there in ’42, he got with us, and me and him started playing together from there.
Robert Stone:
So now when did he start playing the steel? Right away, in Ocala? Or was it later?
Harvey Jones:
Yes. Yes. That’s the only instrument that he ever played. The Hawaiian.
Robert Stone:
But when you met him down in Ocala, he wasn’t playing yet.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. He was starting to learn it from there. Then he picked it… he caught on pretty fast.
Robert Stone:
Do you think he learned from Willie Eason?
Harvey Jones:
He probably got his start from him.
Robert Stone:
Because Willie says he did.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, because, he probably knew Willie Eason before I did.
Robert Stone:
Right, because Willie used to come to Ocala.
Harvey Jones:
Right.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Right. And Nelson lived in Ocala too.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, exactly. Now that’s his sister I go see. He’s got two sisters there.
Harvey Jones:
Nelson?
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Yeah. One is pretty young. So she doesn’t remember much. She doesn’t remember much from back then, but the other one was born in 1928. Mary, and her health isn’t real good, but her mind is pretty sharp.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, okay, so what about Nelson? No, no, no, no. I mean, Lockley.
Robert Stone:
He’s passed.
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah. Well he had a son.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. JR Junior.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, you got it. JR, JR.
Robert Stone:
I don’t know where he is.
Harvey Jones:
That dude could play that saxophone.
Robert Stone:
Is that right?
Harvey Jones:
No, not that…
Robert Stone:
A xylophone or a-
Harvey Jones:
Xylophone! Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Vibraphone.
Harvey Jones:
That’s what I’m trying to say.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Vibraphone.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was real on that thing.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative)?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
I didn’t. Did you see Bishop Lockley’s band that he called the Gospel Feast Party?
Harvey Jones:
No, no.
Robert Stone:
You never saw that group.
Harvey Jones:
They must have got that up after I left, because I didn’t remember that.
Robert Stone:
Well, or you just missed-
Harvey Jones:
I quit traveling with them in ’57.
Robert Stone:
No, it was starting-
Harvey Jones:
I started in ’42 and I quit and I left in ’57. 15 years.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). So, one thing Mary told me that she remembered about that Jewell Dominion church in Ocala…
Harvey Jones:
Mary who?
Robert Stone:
Mary Nelson. Henry Nelson’s sister.
Harvey Jones:
Okay.
Robert Stone:
She said she remembered that, first of all, she said back in those days, they didn’t have electricity yet. But she said that the Bishop Jewell had electricity at her church. It was battery powered. She had batteries round back.
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah?
Robert Stone:
And, and that she had a thing, like a sign or a thing that looked like a train inside the church.
Harvey Jones:
No, what now? That must have, I don’t remember that.
Robert Stone:
You don’t remember that?
Harvey Jones:
That must must’ve been before I got with them. Before I got with them because… When I got with them, they had electricity. There in Ocala.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). Okay.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. I don’t remember nothing about no battery power. Nothing. Because that must have been before ’42, before I got with them.
Robert Stone:
Now you were playing electric guitar at that time?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Okay.
Harvey Jones:
But until I got with them, I was playing just a box, just to a regular guitar. But when I got with them… I actually, I was afraid of it because I thought it might shock me because I didn’t know nothing about electricity. Hooked up to that amplifier, I thought it might shock me, but everybody laughed at me because I was afraid of it. I said “This thing ain’t going to shock me, is it?” you know, like that.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
But as soon as I’d found out it wasn’t going to hurt me, man, I got loose on that thing, then.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
And Bishop Jewell heard me. And she asked Fred Neal, you ever heard of him?
Robert Stone:
Well, yeah, I have heard of him. Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Well, she did see if he could get me to stop traveling with her because she liked the sound that I was putting out. So, I grabbed it. I was glad to get some exposure.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). Sure, sure. Was it hard for people to get used to the sound was coming… You know, they looking at you playing the guitar, but the sound came out of the speaker?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Yeah, way I see it. Everybody was country people and they weren’t use to nothing like that.
Robert Stone:
Well, everybody, it was new. Yeah. Yeah. And it was country back then.
Harvey Jones:
It was so new to me, I was afraid of it. I thought it might shock me, but they laughed at me because I was afraid of it.
Harvey Jones:
You said you taping all this?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Okay. I’m going to tell… Hey, I’m going to call Felton. I’m going to call him and tell him if the demand that you said was going to call me, I just hung up from talking to him.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Well actually, I talked to Felton today.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, you did?
Robert Stone:
Yes.
Harvey Jones:
We’ll I’m going to call him too.
Robert Stone:
Okay. And, he said, “Have you talked to Harvey Jones, yet?”
Robert Stone:
I said, “Well, I’ve been on the run. I’ve been traveling a lot.” And I said, “No, I haven’t yet.” He says, “Well, you need to call him soon, because I told him you were going to be calling.”
Harvey Jones:
Right, right.
Robert Stone:
That’s one reason I call. I said, “Yeah, you’re right. I need to do it.” And yeah. So I’m just trying to think. Now, did Lorenzo have special guitars built?
Harvey Jones:
He did. He had one built.
Robert Stone:
One special.
Harvey Jones:
Well, he had one special made.
Robert Stone:
Can you describe it?
Harvey Jones:
Well, it had two necks on it.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
Double neck.
Robert Stone:
Do you remember what brand it was or anything?
Harvey Jones:
Shoot. No, I don’t. I feel like it was a Gibson, but I don’t know for sure. But I remember he had one special-made.
Robert Stone:
When was that? Do you remember about when?
Harvey Jones:
Well, about 1956, ’57, somewhere along in there.
Robert Stone:
So just about not too long for you quit.
Harvey Jones:
Right, right.
Robert Stone:
And, didn’t it have a cabinet or something like an organ or something? Or maybe that was later.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. He must’ve got that after that.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Yeah, because I have one photo of Lorenzo and he’s at a triple-neck Gibson. Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. He did have one of them too, but I think that the one that he had made was just a double neck. I think that triple-neck, I don’t think he had that one. I don’t remember.
Robert Stone:
Right. It was a standard guitar.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Now I also heard he had one that was covered in leather.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. I think I heard, but I don’t remember.
Robert Stone:
You don’t remember it?
Harvey Jones:
No.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Now what was it about building a church there in Kansas City? Where I think somebody said they played out in front of the street corner to help raise money for it. Was that Felton?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did it. He did. Because he… Bishop Mayes was his uncle and I heard that… That was before I come here at all.
Robert Stone:
Oh, I see. Yeah. When did you move to Kansas City?
Harvey Jones:
That was about a year or two before I came.
Robert Stone:
And when was that? When did you move to Kansas City?
Harvey Jones:
In ’57.
Robert Stone:
Okay.
Harvey Jones:
Well that must have been about ’54 or 5.
Robert Stone:
Okay.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. I traveled with them from ’42 to ’57.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative), that’s a long time.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. 15 years of it.
Robert Stone:
Now, was that your job or were you working and traveling?
Harvey Jones:
Well, when I first went through them, I worked part-time and then I got odd jobs that I got. I would get one that I could get off when I got ready. Right. And I did that for a couple of years. And then the Bishop told me to just give up the job completely because she wanted me full-time on the road.
Robert Stone:
Wow. So after just a couple of years, you were full-time, huh?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Wow.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
So, you did a lot of playing!
Harvey Jones:
That’s one of the reason I ended up driving too, see my job was driving and playing.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
I was a chauffeur.
Robert Stone:
Right. That was real common in those days.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Yeah. See, we’d do 70,000 miles a year.
Robert Stone:
Really?
Harvey Jones:
70,000 miles in one year. And that was getting to my back. That’s one of the reasons why I stopped, because I thought it was messing with my kidneys. But I come to find out it was arthritis in my back. It wasn’t the kidney, but that was one of the reasons I quit, because I thought I didn’t want to mess my kidneys up, driving so much.
Robert Stone:
Right, right, right. Yeah. Because that was before interstate highways.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, yeah, yeah, right!
Robert Stone:
So 70,000 miles was a lot.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, yeah. 70,000 miles a year. That’s [crosstalk 00:23:28].
Robert Stone:
So you drove the bishop’s car or your car?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Well, I drove… the bishop and I drove. She had two.
Robert Stone:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
I drove the bishop’s car and then, when they got the second car, they put me in the second car and then Harrison drove the bishop’s car.
Robert Stone:
What kind of car does she have?
Harvey Jones:
Cadillac.
Robert Stone:
Big Cadillac, yeah. Black?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). And she was a pretty big woman, wasn’t she?
Harvey Jones:
No, no, she wasn’t pretty big. She was big. She was, she was about 6’2” and weighed about 300 pounds.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
So she’s big and tall.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Are you still in the Church of the Living God?
Harvey Jones:
No, I left it about five or six years ago.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Because they, they just put out a history calendar and it’s got a lot of photographs of the folks. Yeah. So you can get… Even that, there’s this one photograph of a Bishop Jewell when she was young and she was big when she was young. She was tall.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, she was big ever since I knew her.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
I’ve been knowing her long before I started traveling with her.
Robert Stone:
Oh really?
Harvey Jones:
Uh-huh (affirmative), I knew, because they’d come to Mississippi to Tupelo, come to Tupelo, Mississippi. And I would go from Oxford up there, about 30 miles to be at the meeting. See Tupelo was the headquarters for the state of Mississippi, for the church. So when they’d come to Tupelo, I’d go up there to the meeting. And I knew her that that was back in about 1937, ’38. You were just a little boy, then, weren’t you?
Robert Stone:
I was born in ’44.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, you weren’t even born then, were you?
Harvey Jones:
You the same age as my daughter. My daughter just left here, that was born in ’44. Just left. She was, matter of fact, she was here, when you called a while ago, she was here then. And that’s why I told you to wait, call me back because she was tending some business with me, she just left.
Robert Stone:
Sure, sure. So how was it traveling, on the road? You got any stories about the adventures on the road?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. I ran over a cow. Well, wait now. Down in Florida, coming out of leaving Ocala, coming home, coming out of Florida. I ran over a cow.
Robert Stone:
Really?
Harvey Jones:
You know, do you know, they had open range down there, then. You know, cows eating alongside the highway. And I was following a big truck and this cow raised up her head, like she fixed to cross the road, I said, “Please, don’t cross it,” I was pulling a house trailer. About a 28-feet long house trailer. I’ll tell you if she tried to cross, I can’t stop. That’s the very thing she tried to do.
Robert Stone:
What were you doing pulling a house trailer?
Harvey Jones:
That’s where the bishops stayed in, when we’d go to a place where they didn’t have no place for her to stay. She had her own place to sleep.
Robert Stone:
Wow, uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
Well, you said, wow. Yeah. So that’s why I was pulling the house trailer.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes perfect sense.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. So, when I saw her beginning to cross the road, I hit my brakes, but I couldn’t stop.
Robert Stone:
And when was that? You know about when?
Harvey Jones:
That was about 1948, or ’49.
Robert Stone:
You got real good recall. This is great. You got a good memory.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Yeah. And also, I was going to California, pulling the same house trailer and some hogs run out in front of me. What you laughing about?
Robert Stone:
Yeah, no, it ain’t funny. It’s a mess.
Harvey Jones:
I hit the hog, and it almost wrecked me.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
I killed the cow that I hit, I looked in my side mirror and I saw it. You heard people say “I knocked the S out of you?”
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Well, that’s what I did to the cow.
Robert Stone:
Literally, yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. I didn’t… I didn’t, I hate to tell you this on the phone. You recording this?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Well you got something to hear because I knocked it out of her. She messed up my windshield.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. No that’s I can totally believe it.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. But I had a bumper guard, she could have wrecked my car, but I had a bumper guard on the front that he protected me from being tore up.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
For killing a cow.
Robert Stone:
There man. That’s a heavy thing to hit.
Harvey Jones:
I was going about 50 mile an hour when I hit her.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Wow.
Harvey Jones:
And my windshield was just covered and I had to peek through that until I could find somewhere to get out and clean off my windshield.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative), uh-huh (affirmative). Wow. Can you hang on one minute? I’m going to change tapes.
Harvey Jones:
Okay.
Robert Stone:
That must’ve been a mess.
Harvey Jones:
Yes, well quite a few things happened while I was traveling that stuck in my memories.
Robert Stone:
Sure. Got any more?
Harvey Jones:
You done changed the tape?
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Yeah, I’m set.
Harvey Jones:
Okay. Yeah, you know how dogs like to run out in the front of your car?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
They try to bite your wheels over on the highway, well this dog was coming down a steep bank to head the car off to try to bite the wheels, and he got over-speeded, and he saw that he was going to get hit, so he went to hollering before I hit him, because he put his brakes on, but he slid onto the car anyway. But I hit him, he was already hollering. He was already ready, so he went back and I followed him. He went back rubbing his head, because I hit him pretty hard.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Was he all right?
Harvey Jones:
The most [crosstalk 00:01:02] thing that happened to me. That’s just a little. I can’t think of all of them, but oh, in New York City, we was in there and somebody stole all of my clothes.
Robert Stone:
Really?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, I left them in the trailer while we was in church, and I come out and I saw somebody had tampered with the canvas, and I said, “I hope didn’t nobody get mine.” So I was hoping that bad luck on somebody else, and I’m the only that they did get. And I said, “Well, maybe I shouldn’t have done that.” Because I was the only one, and my suitcase was gone with everything I had in it, but what I had on, which was a chauffeur suit. That’s all I had, so the bishop had to buy me some more clothes until we got back home.
Robert Stone:
So you actually wore like a chauffeur suit when you were doing chauffeuring?
Harvey Jones:
Oh, well, yes, especially when I was driving for her. She bought me a chauffeur suit.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, being a chauffeur.
Robert Stone:
Well, that was a long time doing that.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
That was a long time.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, it was a long time.
Robert Stone:
And then you play in the services and Harrison pretty much was with you all the time?
Harvey Jones:
Right, yeah, uh-huh (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative)?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. And when we get to where we’re going, we get to our post and get our music out, and play and have service.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative). I’ve heard very little of his music. What kind of a player was he?
Harvey Jones:
Oh he was good. But this boy, Felton, picked up a lot of his music. Felton picked up a lot of his music and added a lot to it. Oh yeah, he was kind of jealous, he didn’t want nobody to beat him doing whatever he was doing, so Felton kind of run rings around him a little bit, and he was kind of upset about that. I hear you laughing.
Robert Stone:
No, it’s because all I hear is Harrison was very, very good.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, and he was. He was, but see, when you go by to see him at his office, everybody boost him. He supposed to be outstanding, but if anybody comes behind him and do a little better than him, then that kind of hurt his feelings.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, right. Sure. Well, that still goes on today, I think, with all these guys. Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
It does, yep. Well, that’s probably the best I can remember of the different things that happened. I know I was out one time and he had to play without me, see because I was the main pusher, the main. If I didn’t play, he couldn’t do too much, just playing the Hawaiian by itself, the way we have church. So I was gone, so when I got back I come back late, but I come in before they got out of service, and everybody was clapping their hands because I was back, because they knew things at least would get right now, and he want to know what they patting their hands for. They supposed to do that when he comes in, but they clapping their hands because I come there. And I told him. I said, “Now look, you may not like this of course,” I said, “You know you glad to see me too, because you know you couldn’t do nothing without me.”
Robert Stone:
You know, I’m a musician myself, so I know that the guitar behind the steel is what makes the steel sound good. Screw it.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, yeah. Now, where I am now, I haven’t been in where I am now for about six to eight months. Before that he play his guitar, but he’s not too good, but he likes to put on a show. He likes to put up and put on the act, but the sound don’t be coming out. The sound is something else, see?
Robert Stone:
Now, who is this?
Harvey Jones:
Because what I do, you could cover me up, I just put the sound out. Now, what he done is what you see is what you get, see? But when I’m playing I say, “What you hear is what you get. You can cover me up. I don’t want to be seen, but I want to be heard.” So that’s the difference in that, or even with Harrison. See I was the one that- see I want to hear here, and that’s so why they were so glad when I come back, because I was the lead man. Without me, the one in the back couldn’t do very much. See, and I knew that, and Harrison knew it too, but if anybody brag on somebody else beside him, then he becomes a little bit upset about it.
Robert Stone:
Do you have any idea where Harrison got any of his musical ideas?
Harvey Jones:
No I don’t. I think he just picked it out back, it just come to him, unless he got some of it from Willie, Willie Eason. Most of it I think he just … See, the lord, God, give us this. See, this was anointed from God. This isn’t just no ordinary- We didn’t go- I didn’t go to school for this at all, I didn’t take no music. I don’t know one key, well I know about three or four keys to play in, but I can play in any key anybody thinks. I can play on it, and play it professionally, and I don’t even know music. I never took no music. I play by ear. Just like BB King, these folks play by ear, Elvis Presley, they play by ear. Play it the way they feel. See I played my feelings, see? And then when you play your feelings, it is most likely it’s the audience’s feeling too, because that’s the way the Lord anointed us for that. So you can’t get too much from what you get from the school like what you can get from God direct. We was anointed for that, and we just put it together.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely.
Harvey Jones:
Well, we tied it in real good.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, no, they did. Now, the way I hear the Jewell guitar players today, you know Spanish guitar players, they play a lot of what I would call boogie-woogie and kind of shuffles, different. Is that your thing?
Harvey Jones:
Well, no. I got to have a song to sing, and I play the song. Now, I might put something in there that’ll sound like some of that, but I’m still singing the song. The song that I’m playing, I’m playing that song, and I may add a little something to it that would sound like blues or something like that, but it’s the song. Still, I don’t get off the song at all, I still stay and sing it, playing the song. I make my guitar sing the song, and I may add a little rhythm to it, rhythm to make it really fit in just right. Yeah, yes sir.
Robert Stone:
Right. Okay, and-
Harvey Jones:
Like Mahalia Jackson, oh yeah, just before you hang up there.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, no, I’m not done yet.
Harvey Jones:
Okay, Mahalia Jackson, because back in ‘ 49 they didn’t allow Black people to play at the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville, well Mahalia got in there because she was well known by whites and Blacks, and so she got in. We got in by her coattail, so while she was I and there, she didn’t have nobody to play for her but just a piano player, so while I was there I put a little rhythm along with her piano player.
Robert Stone:
So you played on the Opry?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, we got in the Opry there in ’49, but we normally wouldn’t have been able to get in there, back that time.
Robert Stone:
You played with her?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, I put a little rhythm along with her piano player, just I volunteered and did it. She didn’t ask me to. So after she got through singing, she went back to the curtain and she called the piano player to her and asked him, said, “Which one of them guitar players that was playing with you a while ago when I was singing?”
Harvey Jones:
He pulled the curtain back, said, “That one sitting right there.”
Harvey Jones:
She said, “Go tell him I said come here.”
Harvey Jones:
So he come touch me on the shoulder, say, “Mahalia want to see you backstage.”
Harvey Jones:
So I said, “What, Mahalia?” I went back there and she was making a face. She said, “Boy, that sound so pretty, say how would you like to travel with me and play for my records?” I said, “I sure would like to,” but I turned it down. I said, “Well, I sure would like to,” but see I saw my manager looking at me, which was Harrison. Harrison was looking and I said, “Well, I guess I can’t take it.” But that’s what she asked me, because I put this rhythm along with her piano player and it sounded so good too that she wanted me.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative), that’s great. That’s a real compliment.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I thought it was.
Robert Stone:
Do you remember what time of year that was?
Harvey Jones:
No I don’t, but I know the year, it was in 1949.
Robert Stone:
Was it hot or cold, or do you remember?
Harvey Jones:
No, it was about like it is now I think.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative), so it might’ve been in the fall?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
That’s the Grand Old Opry, sure is.
Robert Stone:
In the old Ryman Auditorium?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
So did you guys listen to country music?
Harvey Jones:
Huh?
Robert Stone:
Did you guys listen to country music at all?
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Would you listen to it on the radio when you were traveling?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, sure did.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative)?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Did you have any favorite country artists?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, but I can’t think of their name now, because my mind has been so engrossed in the church, church work and church songs and stuff like that, so I forgot the names of all of it.
Robert Stone:
Did you ever listen to WLAC radio up in Nashville?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, WLAC, yes. Yeah, in Gallatin Tennessee.
Robert Stone:
Right.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, sure did.
Robert Stone:
Randy’s Records?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes, sir. Yes sir, sure did, living there in Nashville. See I lived in Cleveland, Ohio seven years.
Robert Stone:
When was that?
Harvey Jones:
From ’42 to ’49, then I moved to Nashville along with Bishop Jewell, and I lived there from ’49 until ’57, so that was my time altogether just traveling, about 15 years of it. Eight of it, I lived in Cleveland, the other half living in Nashville.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative), uh-huh (affirmative), uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
You’re getting a whole lot of information from me here today.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, well, that’s my business. Yeah, that’s my job.
Harvey Jones:
I’m going to call Felton as soon as I get here through with you and tell him who I just talked to.
Robert Stone:
Great, yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Now, now, give me your name again.
Robert Stone:
Bob Stone, Stone like rock, you know?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, I’m going to tell him, but I’ll just say Mr. Stone.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, that’s fine. Matter of fact, I think I’m going to-
Harvey Jones:
He’ll know who it is.
Robert Stone:
Oh yeah, absolutely. I’m probably going to go up and visit those guys in Detroit, because there’s a bunch of them, you know?
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah, oh yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Because there’s him and Ronnie and all, did you know Ronnie Hall?
Harvey Jones:
Ronnie who?
Robert Stone:
Hall.
Harvey Jones:
Hall? I know a Ronnie, but the Ronnie that I know lives in Toledo, he’s Warren. He’s Warren.
Robert Stone:
What’s his name?
Harvey Jones:
Ronnie Warren.
Robert Stone:
Ronnie Warren?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, he lives in Toledo, right out of Detroit basically, but I don’t know Ronnie Hall. I don’t know that one. That must be one of Felton’s new friends.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, right. He’s a little younger.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
What was I going to ask you? Oh, were you with Harrison when he recorded with the Jewell Trio?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Yeah, sure was. Yes I was. I was there. Listen, let me tell you something about that now.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, please.
Harvey Jones:
Huh?
Robert Stone:
Please do.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, go. Now, the Jewell Trio was not the girls singing when we got that together. The Jewell Trio, gospel trio, was me, Harrison and Corroneva Burns. It was just a band, there wasn’t no singers. But after he organized the singers and got the singers together, it was three girls, and he took the name from us and give it to the girls, so that’s how the Jewell Gospel Trio got started.
Robert Stone:
Really?
Harvey Jones:
I told him this in Toledo, that the Jewell Gospel Trio started just by three musicians. It was just a band of three, but after we got the Jewell Trio started, he gave them the name.
Robert Stone:
So they made a few records.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, yeah.
Robert Stone:
Were you on those records?
Harvey Jones:
Huh?
Robert Stone:
Were you on those records?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, I was on all of them.
Robert Stone:
All of them?
Harvey Jones:
See, I was there when they put the Jewells together, and every record they made, I was on it.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative)?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Because we was doing it-
Robert Stone:
Do you have any of those?
Harvey Jones:
Huh?
Robert Stone:
Was Harrison on them too?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, he was on there too. All of them, he’s on it. Me, Harrison and Corroneva Burns, we all was on all the records they made. They didn’t make no records that we was not on.
Robert Stone:
Okay, can you hear the steel pretty good on those records?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative)?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Because I never have heard any of them.
Harvey Jones:
You haven’t?
Robert Stone:
No.
Harvey Jones:
Well, they played them from WLAC, and they played from the Buckley Record Shop there in Nashville.
Robert Stone:
Buckley Record Shop?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, Buckley. You remember Buckley?
Robert Stone:
No.
Harvey Jones:
They was there in the recording company, Nashboro Records.
Robert Stone:
Nashboro, right.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, Nashboro. They played our records on the nationwide radio, sure did.
Robert Stone:
Do you have any?
Harvey Jones:
The Jewell Gospel. Well, see, that’s why they were called the Jewell Gospel Trio, because that’s the way they started. See, he added two more singers to the group, so they cut out the Jewell Gospel Trio and were starting to call it the Jewell Gospel Singers, because there were five instead of three.
Robert Stone:
Because there was five singers?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
So all the records they made, me and Harrison and Corroneva Burns was all was on it.
Robert Stone:
Okay, do you have any of those?
Harvey Jones:
No, something happened to them since they’ve been there in Indianapolis. Something happened, and I think my wife got one or two here, but I’ll have to look good through all these records to see if I can find one.
Robert Stone:
Well, I think I know somebody who’s got them, a collector.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, I hope you can. If you can find them, if you can let me know, I’ll pay you for them.
Robert Stone:
Well, I probably can’t get the records, but I can probably get copies put on CD.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, yeah, okay. Well, whatever you can do, because I sure would like to have some of that.
Robert Stone:
Well, I got to look into that. That might take a little while, but I know a guy out in California that’s a collector.
Harvey Jones:
Okay, okay. Well, keep my number.
Robert Stone:
Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And before I forget, how about your mailing address?
Harvey Jones:
Mailing address?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, okay. You want it?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Okay. It’s Kansas City, Missouri.
Robert Stone:
Okay, because I’m going to send you the video.
Harvey Jones:
Okay, you mean of this?
Robert Stone:
That we did about the Keith Dominion players.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, yeah, okay. I could get into that.
Robert Stone:
It’s got Willie Eason in it, and Henry Nelson, and the younger guys.
Harvey Jones:
What? You going to send that to me?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
All right, now don’t fool me now.
Robert Stone:
No, I’m not kidding. I’m going to put it in. Actually, I mailed one to Felton and it got lost in the mail, so I’m sending him another one tomorrow, so I’ll package you one up too.
Harvey Jones:
Okay, all right. I appreciate that.
Robert Stone:
That’s my treat. That’s the least I can do.
Harvey Jones:
I appreciate it, I thank you.
Robert Stone:
Oh, you’re going to like it. You’re going to like it.
Harvey Jones:
Okay, that’s okay.
Robert Stone:
I guarantee you.
Harvey Jones:
It’ll bring back old memories, bring back old memories.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Now, did you know Treadway, Sonny Treadway?
Harvey Jones:
Yes, I know him. Yes, I know, because he pick up his music from me. I’m not bragging or whatever, but I’m just saying. Everything you asked about, I have to tell you the truth.
Robert Stone:
Because he actually played guitar for Harrison later.
Harvey Jones:
Right, after I left?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
After I left, he filled in.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative), and he also plays steel, that’s mostly what he’s known for, but he told me that he played guitar for Harrison for some time.
Harvey Jones:
He did, he did, after I left.
Robert Stone:
He’s a good musician.
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative), he’s good.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
And how about Ronnie Mozee, do you know him?
Harvey Jones:
Ronnie, no. You asked me about him a while ago.
Robert Stone:
No, that was Ronnie Hall I was asking about.
Harvey Jones:
The only Ronnie I know is one that’s called Ronnie Warren, he lives in Toledo, but I don’t know-
Robert Stone:
Yeah, Ronnie Mozee, he took over for Harrison playing the steel.
Harvey Jones:
Oh.
Robert Stone:
For Bishop Manning.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, oh yeah, okay.
Robert Stone:
Well, you know she just passed.
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah, right, right. Listen, now I remember when she was born.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Because me and Harrison got married the same week.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, right, you were saying.
Harvey Jones:
And their first child was three months old when my first child was born.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), the one that just left here.
Robert Stone:
Wow.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, she’s three months older than my oldest daughter. Yeah, well that’s good then, so that’s who Ronnie Mozee is?
Robert Stone:
Yeah, he’s essentially the head steel player in the Jewell Dominion now.
Harvey Jones:
Okay, okay. Yeah, now I’m getting an idea who that is now.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, he’s in his 40s. He’s very, very good. Actually, he’s probably even a better guitar player, Spanish. He’s very good.
Harvey Jones:
A whole lots of people could beat Harrison playing, but they didn’t want to admit it, because they didn’t want to hurt his feelings. Felton could. Are you recording this?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
You still recording it?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Felton, somebody asked Felton for a number one day in Toledo, and he didn’t have his guitar with him, so he used Harrison’s guitar, and he took it and made Harrison look so bad.
Robert Stone:
Wow.
Harvey Jones:
And when he give the guitar back to Harrison, Harrison wouldn’t hardly play after that, because he played so good until the people started giving him a round of applause to come back and do another one, come back again, and they didn’t ever ask Harrison to come back again. But they went, “That sounds so good, we want to hear some more of that.” He wouldn’t give him the guitar back.
Robert Stone:
I bet he wouldn’t, yeah.
Harvey Jones:
I better quit telling you all of this here.
Robert Stone:
Oh, it’s okay, it’s history.
Harvey Jones:
This is part of the history of this church.
Robert Stone:
And there’s plenty of room for everybody, really. I mean, nobody can take away from Harrison.
Harvey Jones:
No, no. Oh no, oh no. Mm-mm (negative), no sir, no sir.
Robert Stone:
He was great, there’s no doubt about that.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, he was. Oh yes. Yes, yes. He was my manager. That’s why I didn’t go with Mahalia Jackson, I saw him looking at me, because he saw about she was trying to do.
Robert Stone:
You know, Henry Nelson actually played on a record with her.
Harvey Jones:
He did?
Robert Stone:
Yeah, you can barely hear him, but he’s on there. And he told me about it, and I looked it up, and I got a copy of it. And the name of the song was “To Me He’s So Wonderful.”
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s quite a pretty song.
Robert Stone:
Henry Nelson played on it. Like I say, if you didn’t know he was on there, you would never hear it. It’s way down in the mix, but I would assume that on these Jewell Gospel recordings I would assume you could hear Harrison pretty good, huh?
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah, oh yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative). You can hear me on there too. You hear me real good, because I pushed it up. I was going to be heard, never mind they didn’t want me to be heard, but I turned it up anyway.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative)?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah.
Robert Stone:
Well, I got to get my hands on some of them. Now, those were 78s, weren’t they?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, you’re right. Right, right.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
It was a few of them little ones, a few of them.
Robert Stone:
A few 45s, uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
You’re right, 45s, but most of them were 78s.
Robert Stone:
Right.
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
So do you remember the period when you were recording roughly, was it the ’40s, ’50s?
Harvey Jones:
Oh, the late ’40s and the early ’50s, say from ’45 to about ’52 or three, somewhere along in there. ’54, maybe ’55. From ’45, 1945 to 1955.
Robert Stone:
Okay, yeah, about 10 years.
Harvey Jones:
About 10 years, uh-huh (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Yeah, because you probably didn’t do much until after the war.
Harvey Jones:
Right, right, mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Yeah, because they had a ban on it pretty much.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, correct, you’re right.
Robert Stone:
Because of materials, yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Yep, yeah.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, and you went to the Nashboro studios?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Where were they?
Harvey Jones:
On 3rd Street down there in Nashville. I used to remember that address, because every time it would come on radio they’d tell you about Nashboro Records, the address of it. Because it’s on 3rd street there in Nashville, right down, not far from the square.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, not very far from where the Grand Old Opry used to be. You know, the Grand Old Opry just moved out. It’s not in downtown no more. Yeah, so it was just up the street from the Grand Old Opry, on 3rd Street in Nashville.
Robert Stone:
Uh-huh (affirmative), uh-huh (affirmative). Great, you know, I’ve been to Nashville about four times, I never have seen the town, because I wind up going to the church to take pictures or do a recording or something like that, and even this last time I was there for four days and all I saw was the church and the hotel.
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah. You mean the church on Heiman Street?
Robert Stone:
The big one, now they got the new big one there.
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah, they got it, yeah. That’s on Heiman Street.
Robert Stone:
Right, exactly. And I told you, Burns was there.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, I see. Yeah, all right.
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, all right. Well, just right down the street from where the church was when I was there. When I left there in ’57, our church was just up the street from there, going towards Jefferson. No, no, no, going towards 18th Street. There’s 18th and Jefferson just a little from there. Yeah, it was going up towards 18th street from where the big church is now where you went.
Robert Stone:
But it was on Heiman?
Harvey Jones:
Right, right, right.
Robert Stone:
And do you play the assemblies every year, did you?
Harvey Jones:
I did, see but since I’ve left that church now, I don’t.
Robert Stone:
Right, I mean but back when you were with them from ’42 to ’57 you played in them?
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah, yes, uh-huh (affirmative). Yes, I sure did, dang. Let me tell you this, Willie Eason’s overseer was named Keith, do you remember that?
Robert Stone:
Right.
Harvey Jones:
You remember that name?
Robert Stone:
Right, Bishop Keith.
Harvey Jones:
Bishop Keith, okay. Now, right when I first went to Nashville she heard me playing, and she asked Bishop Jewell, “Who is that man?” Bishop Jewell thought she was talking about somebody else, she said, “I don’t know.” She was probably talking about me, but Bishop Jewell thought she’s talking about else she as pointing at. Bishop Jewell said, “I don’t know who it is, who he is.” She said, “You don’t?” Then Bishop Keith, called me, motioned for me to come to her, she said, “Come here.” Then I got up, went over there to see what she wanted, and she said, “Who are you and where are you from?” I said, “I’m from Cleveland, I’m with Bishop Jewell.” She looked at Bishop Jewell and said, “He say he’s with you.” He says, “Is this who you was talking about? I didn’t know you was talking about him. Yeah, that’s my boy there.” Yeah, because she was gonna lay hands on me. She was gonna get ahold of me, because she didn’t know I was with Bishop Jewell, she thought I was just a strange man there. And she was going to talk me into getting with her, but when Bishop Jewell I was who she was talking about, she says, “Oh no, that’s my boy there. I didn’t know that’s who you was talking about.”
Robert Stone:
Hang on a second, I’m going to change tape, okay?
Robert Stone:
Tell me about those assemblies, if you would. Did you play in the tent?
Harvey Jones:
I played wherever they had the assembly at. Yeah, in the tent. In Nashville, most of the time, that’s where it was, a tent, because we didn’t have a … They built a place for us to have church inside later on, but most time there in Nashville, it was a tent. That’s where it was, under the tent, outside, right down in the field, kind of off of Harmon Street a bit, and we had a tent stretched out down there.
Robert Stone:
So it wasn’t right on Harmon Street.
Harvey Jones:
No, no, not right up on the street. It was about, oh, about 50 or about 100 steps off the street right down … They call it the field, but it’s on the street, not right up on the street because you couldn’t get a tent because it was another old … The old publishing house was there in the way. So they put the tent behind it. But when it started playing, though, we drew people from south Nashville, from two, three miles away, people coming there because we had the sound going all over that city. We had people coming there from a couple of miles out south of Nashville.
Robert Stone:
Now, did they have the Jewell and the Keith assemblies under the same tent?
Harvey Jones:
Right, they did. They did. They would do that once a year. The two dominions would work together.
Robert Stone:
Really?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. They would come together once a year. They would come together once a year. Bishop Jewell Dominion and Bishop Keith Dominion would come together once a year.
Robert Stone:
Now, how did they do that? Did they hold service together?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, sure would. Yes, sir; brought up in the same church, but they had a few little discrepancies in there, but it was suppose to have been the same, same church, just two dominions of the same church.
Robert Stone:
How did it work, the musicians? I mean, did-
Harvey Jones:
Well, the musicians, they would have special numbers from Bishop Keith side, have special number for them. Then they’d have special numbers for the Jewell side. Then they’d have us all to work together, pull together. We put all the musicians together. We had some times down there.
Robert Stone:
I bet.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, yes, we did. Yes, sir.
Robert Stone:
Now, tell me, from what I’ve been able to put together, and I’d like to get your say-so on this, it looks like to me that the steel guitar came in … it started … It got strong in the Jewell Dominion earlier before it did in the Keith Dominion, you know? Nowadays, the steel guitar dominates in the Keith Dominion more than any other instrument, but it looks like in the Jewell Dominion, it dominated earlier.
Harvey Jones:
It did.
Robert Stone:
Is that right?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah, you got it right.
Robert Stone:
Because, I mean, from what I understand, there might’ve been some years when the Keith Dominion didn’t even have a steel player at the General Assembly. You remember it that way?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robert Stone:
Do you remember Henry Nelson playing there in the ’50s?
Harvey Jones:
Henry?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Henry Nelson … J.R. Lockley. Henry Nelson, no, I don’t remember him, too. That’s a pretty good piece back, and see, I’m 81 years old.
Robert Stone:
Right, yeah. You got a great memory.
Harvey Jones:
I think I’m doing pretty good-
Robert Stone:
Real good.
Harvey Jones:
… for that age. Yeah. Now, Nelson, Bishop, now must’ve been his daddy.
Robert Stone:
His father, yes. Bishop Nelson.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, his father lived there in Ocala, right across the street from where our church was at, there in Ocala. Now, I don’t know his son too good, but I knew him, the old man, Bishop Nelson, but I didn’t know about his son too good then.
Robert Stone:
Oh, he was almost 10 years younger than you.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, okay. Well, that’s the reason I didn’t remember him too good.
Robert Stone:
I know that he played at the General Assembly. I just don’t know … It doesn’t look like he didn’t play too much until later.
Harvey Jones:
The biggest one that played from Keith Dominion was J.R. Lockley and Willie Eason. They were the main ones that played from us, just those two. I don’t remember any other ones that was outstanding-
Robert Stone:
Now, when you say J.R. Lockley, you mean Junior.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Junior, right. I’m not talking about the old man. See, he was a bishop, too.
Robert Stone:
Right, but he was-
Harvey Jones:
His daddy was Bishop Lockley.
Robert Stone:
As I understand, he was in charge of the music, but his son was a musician.
Harvey Jones:
Right, you got it.
Robert Stone:
I have a LP record of J.R. Lockley, Jr. and his family playing.
Harvey Jones:
Sure enough?
Robert Stone:
Yeah, yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, boy, I can’t get a copy of that, can I?
Robert Stone:
You might.
Harvey Jones:
I sure hope I can.
Robert Stone:
I got it on C-
Harvey Jones:
Because then you can play that … what cellular … What you call it? Cella-phone?
Robert Stone:
I got it on CD.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, okay.
Robert Stone:
You want me to send you a copy?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, you know I do.
Robert Stone:
Okay.
Harvey Jones:
Whatever you got. Whatever you got out there, I sure want some of it because that’s some history, and I’m in it. You know I want some, I want that. Yes, sir. That history is part of mine. I’m in that history, too.
Robert Stone:
Okay. I can make you a CD copy, a copy of that CD.
Harvey Jones:
How much you charge me?
Robert Stone:
Nothing.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, oh. Okay.
Robert Stone:
It only cost me a quarter to make it, you know? CDs are-
Harvey Jones:
I sure appreciate it.
Robert Stone:
Oh yeah, my pleasure, my pleasure.
Harvey Jones:
Okay,
Robert Stone:
I’m glad to, and it’s the family. I’d be interested in getting your opinion of … Most of it is pretty slow pace, but he does play the vibes on it. He plays, I think, just one number with- he plays a little Hawaiian.
Harvey Jones:
Oh yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, man, that’s good. I’d be glad of that. Yes, sir.
Robert Stone:
Now, did Nettie Mae ever play the steel in service?
Harvey Jones:
No, no. She played a steel?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
No, no, she played the piano. Nettie Mae was the piano.
Robert Stone:
Because she did know how to … She said she knew how to play the steel. She took a few lessons when she was a little girl.
Harvey Jones:
Well, but I never did hear none of it. I never did hear her play. Now, Harrison, her husband, he took care of that, the steel. But Nettie Mae, if she ever did any, I never heard it.
Robert Stone:
Right. Now, how about Fred Neal?
Harvey Jones:
Fred? Yeah, he played it. He did, too-
Robert Stone:
Where does he fit in?
Harvey Jones:
… but he didn’t get off the ground good like Harrison did.
Robert Stone:
So he didn’t travel with you all at all?
Harvey Jones:
Fred Neal?
Robert Stone:
Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, he traveled, but he didn’t travel long. He traveled maybe about a year, maybe two years, and he quit. Then, just me and Harrison and Corroneva Burns.
Robert Stone:
But when he did travel, he was with you guys?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Robert Stone:
Okay. Okay. You say when you knew Harrison in Ocala, you were playing music?
Harvey Jones:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Oh, yeah. I was playing long before I met him. I started when I was nine.
Robert Stone:
So you were with … You started when you were nine? Okay.
Harvey Jones:
Nine years old. My mother started me off, and then after she got me started, then I ran off and left her, and then she had me teaching her.
Robert Stone:
Well, some people have a talent for it, you know?
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, yeah [crosstalk 00:08:33].
Robert Stone:
So when Harrison joined the church back in Ocala, he wasn’t playing yet.
Harvey Jones:
No, no. He started right after that because he liked that Hawaiian music.
Robert Stone:
How did he get started playing Hawaiian? Do you know?
Harvey Jones:
No. Well, Fred. Fred went with us a time or two, and he liked the way it sounded. So Harrison, when he got to be a musician, that’s what he wanted to play. He wanted to play the Hawaiian, see, and that’s how he got started on it, just because of what Fred … because Fred was playing it and he liked the way it sound and that’s what he wanted to play.
Robert Stone:
Do you think he might’ve heard Willie Eason before that?
Harvey Jones:
Well, he might have, but I know he heard Fred play.
Robert Stone:
I haven’t, no.
Harvey Jones:
Huh?
Robert Stone:
I have not heard Fred Neal play.
Harvey Jones:
I said I know Harrison heard Fred play.
Robert Stone:
Oh, you know Harrison. Yeah.
Harvey Jones:
I don’t know whether Harrison heard … I’m sure he heard Willie Eason play, too, but I know he heard Fred, and that made him want to play the Hawaiian but play the steel [crosstalk 00:09:41].
Robert Stone:
Because if he was living there … Willie Eason came through Ocala before 1942. I know that.
Harvey Jones:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I think he lived down there somewhere, down in Florida-
Robert Stone:
Well, he-
Harvey Jones:
… at that time before ’42, but I didn’t meet him until ’42 in Nashville.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, he didn’t live there year-round, I don’t think. The best I can tell, the first time he came down to Florida was right after he got out of high school. With Bishop Lockley, he had a traveling group he called the Gospel Feast Party, and that would have been in the fall of 1940.
Harvey Jones:
Okay.
Robert Stone:
Now, this is if I’m putting it together right. I’m not dead positive of that. It’s a little hard to nail these guys- but that’s what it looks like. I got to see if I can nail that down better, but it could have been earlier.
Harvey Jones:
Okay. Now, I know now … I can go back on our history no more than ’42, no further back than ’42. I mean, about me and the Jewell’s history.
Robert Stone:
Right, I understand.
Harvey Jones:
That’s far as I can go back. Now, I was playing long before then. I started nine, but I didn’t start to getting out before the public until ’42.
Robert Stone:
Right. What’s interesting, something that is significant to me when I’m trying to … My book is going to focus on the steel guitar, but of course, I’m interested in these other things. But when you’re telling me that when you were there, when Harrison joined the church in ’42, he wasn’t playing yet.
Harvey Jones:
Well, not as I know because he couldn’t … what he was doing, he was doing the best he could, but he picked … I think Fred playing caused him to get more interested in it. So then he really got down to business trying to learn how to play that thing. He played good, too, but Felton kind knocked his ego down a little bit because he put a little more runs in the darn thing that he played than Harrison did, you know? He’d take Harrison’s song that he played and put more into it than what Harrison was putting in it. So he didn’t like that idea, you know?
Robert Stone:
Well, you know how it is. No matter how good you are, there’s always somebody better-
Harvey Jones:
Right, right, right.
Robert Stone:
… and it’s not a contest anyhow.
Harvey Jones:
Right, right, right.
Robert Stone:
Well, I probably ought to wrap up at least for now.
Harvey Jones:
Okay.
Robert Stone:
I’d like to-
Harvey Jones:
Well, it’s been nice talking to you. I don’t know what all this you catching, what you going to do with it, but you wanted some history of the background of the Church of the Living God, well you got my part.
Robert Stone:
Yeah. Oh, I got some of it.
Harvey Jones:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, [crosstalk 00:12:46].
Robert Stone:
I hope if there’s anything … As I’m working this out, if I have any questions, I might have to call you back.
Harvey Jones:
Okay. All right. What you promised to send me, now, I’m going to be looking for it.
Robert Stone:
Oh, I will. I’ll get it out. I’ll get it out tomorrow.
Harvey Jones:
All right.
Robert Stone:
Okay. Well, thanks a whole lot.
Harvey Jones:
I’m going to call Felton now and tell him who I just talked to.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, do that.
Harvey Jones:
Okay.
Robert Stone:
All righty. Thanks a million.
Harvey Jones:
Okay.
Robert Stone:
You take care. Okay.
Harvey Jones:
Okay. You, too.
Robert Stone:
Yeah, bye now.
Harvey Jones:
Bye-bye.